Thursday, July 5, 2012

The SlymePIt 2.0

The new digs it must be said is something I wish not to be thought of as being a part of. There are many reasons, some of which I'll now detail. There are others, but those are more intricate to explain than I'm in a position now to do.

After the hand-off, Lsuomo apparently thought that the best way to fuck over everyone's work of the previous week on scaling back and working on not alienating as many people as possible, was to make the official motto of the new place "better than a kick in the cunt". This did not go unnoticed. Stephanie (Stefunny - useful distinction to make clear a later point) Zvan at Almost Diamonds has a post up about this, and she's right to use it as a sign that some people were not honest brokers in the process.

Some of us (the others will have to identify themselves as I'm not into outing people just because), however, were. And I don't aim to be tarred with Lsuomo's groups' deceptions. Tar me all you'd like for things I've said and done; don't convict me for what others say and do. To further hamper matters came the thread with the singing along to a song that is a bit in the rape-y talk. Zvan reads it as being rape-talk, and I do too. Some others think otherwise. Given the nature of the conversation at hand, it's unwise and unhelpful to post it only to claim that it has any purpose other than being able to claim some degree of 'well you don't have to take it that way, and only do so for victim cred'. 

Some people might well be in that camp. I am not. But even knowing that some people might 'wrongly' read it that way, there's an argument to be said that putting it up anyway is just to be gratuitous.

Then came my contacting some of the FfTB people; notably, Stephanie and Ophelia. This isn't my showing that I'm in support of them, but on a very, very narrow and short-lived moment. In this non-discussion between them and me, I detailed one of John Greg's more obvious deceptions; namely, he created a post addressed to Stefunny where he implies, but does not specify who, that some people are making the claims that SP2.0 will be editing and deleting posts (a charge we've made all along against FfTB - correctly so). He denies this. For reference, I take the post as accusing Stephanie as being the one making the claim because he singled her out as the post's intended target, but again in a way that he can use 'plausible deniability'. 

So, what's the problem with that? Not two hours later, John Greg is constructing an argument that the ability to edit posts should be retained, but that his mind isn't made up. To flatly deny to Stephanie that it will be happening and then later claim his mind isn't settled is, well, inconsistent. Indeed, one should think that if there's a flat denial, then any later course of action or argument from John's position is constrained by his earlier remarks, unless and until he retracts them. To do otherwise is inconsistent. To do so knowingly and then argue that it's correct is to just lie.

He didn't; he's just arguing two opposing propositions for whatever reasons.

He responds that I'm distorting what he says, and if I'd read his posts I'd know he's talking about not forced editing and deleting of other people's posts. This is inapposite and irrelevant. The complaint has always been that editing and deletion revise history - the claim has never been that it's a revision of history only if someone else does it. It doesn't matter who does the editing in point of fact; that it will and does happen is the point of moment.

One of the points of pride at Abbie's place was that once it's said, it's said. And in order to 'unsay' it, one has to later on formally retract the claim, not to think better of it in a few minutes and go back in to edit shit.

Right, wrong or whatever, once it's said, you're stuck with it warts and all. You may not revise history as it's convenient for you. Hit the publish button, and it's now history.

Except over there. Now you can hit the button, regret something, and then open up the edit window to rewrite it. Instead of having to do the honorable work of confessing error, retracting a claim and then stating what one now thinks that is different.

He calls this prohibition against being able to rewrite what he says 'censorship'. No, John. Not erasing from history what you've said because you later on regret saying it isn't censoring you. Had a free chance to say whatever you thought. And then you said it. Not allowing you to disappear it only stops you from being able to claim you never in fact said what you actually have said.

No, I'm not linking to them; be judicious and you can find the comments I left at both Ophelia's and Stephanie's places, which they generously (though they didn't have to) let out of moderation. I suspect they did so as to make use of what I've said because it shows the dishonesty they've been claiming the whole while. That is fine with me, because on this narrow point with respect to the people identified, I'm in agreement. They are lying, patently, about what they're doing.

To the charge that I'm being a baboon - well, okay. I don't have loyalties to people to the exclusion of my ethics. I have maintained all along that if x is wrong for y, then x is wrong for everyone else. Even my friends. My ethics aren't my friends' commodity to be spent and handed away as they see fit. Only I have a vote on when and if I'll break my ethics. And that the FfTB people are right with respect to the points I've addressed at their places gives me no license to pretend otherwise because others with whom I have elsewhere and otherwise associated find it inconvenient.

Indeed, a sign of integrity is to concede points that one's enemies make that are, in point of fact, correct. And on this point with respect to the dishonesty of the people at the SP2.0, Stephanie was perfectly correct. I get that this inconvenient for those who want to persist in dissembling; that is their problem, not mine.

Stop lying and it will be impossible to find evidence that you've lied. It's very simple. 

For others, I highly suggest you join in the 'let's bash Justicar' threads over at SP2.0; I've always wanted to be Witch of the Week to two groups simultaneously. There are, last I counted, 3 threads specifically about me. There might be 4 or 2 by the time you get there depending on who's adding to content and who's taking away.

But if you're going to do it, at least be entertaining. I'm feeling a bit like Majel Barret's funeral organizers:  wear something appropriate and colorful; Majel hated it to be boring.

Oh, and Hoggle, let me thank you for the colorful, angry emails you send me:

You are a pathetic fucking crank head. Stop telling others to "let things go..." when you can't and just regurgitate crap in and endless circle.

You just churn out gibberish and bullshit, and have complete contempt for any reality that deviates from yours. You're just a screaming spoilt brat that has to have his way in everything. Stop speaking for Abbie - you represent no one other than some meth'ed up alpha male RPG character in your own fantasy world.
When you're in a position to know what I know, you'll have a leg to stand on with respect to claiming to know what I know and don't know. As it happens, you aren't. I'm not sure whether you should keep emailing so I can laugh, or whether you should stop so that I can think you've finally received the attention of the mental health experts like you've long desperately needed. 

37 comments:

dustbubble said...

Where's this edit button of theirs? I could really use it for repairing tag-abortions. Do you have to sign up first?

TheArmchairSkeptic said...

Good for you, Justicar, for sticking to your principles.

The Justicar said...

Well, I don't have much of a choice in it. After I turn off the internet, I have to look myself in the face in the mirror. I like not being ashamed of who I see.  Do I get things wrong? Yes. Do I try not to? Yes. Am I successful at it? More often than not (I hope!), but all the same, if I've said it in public I've said it in public. Warts and all.


My next post, if you'll read it, is my taking apart of a little bit of Franc Hoggle's bosom buddy Sacha's hit job on me - where she pretends to speak for Abbie.

They are now well and fully the mirror image of FfTBs.

The Justicar said...

How would I know? I don't post there. Presumably if it's standard PhPbb, it'll be in your post's header bar for as long a time as the edit ability is enabled. I read that John Greg was arguing for having it be half an hour, but that this was shitcanned. I am uncertain what the time allowed is. 

If one can't be bothered to stick by what one says or to bear the burden of replying to correct it, one shouldn't hit post in the first place. I've been put out by it. Everyone has. It's just a chance to save face if after posted he does more research and figures out he's talking shit.

Johngreg said...

So, Justi says:

"After the hand-off, Lsuomo apparently thought that the best way to fuck over everyone's work of the previous week on scaling back and working on not alienating as many people as possible, was to make the official motto of the new place better than a kick in the cunt'."

And of course, like a good FfTB clone and the honest reporter you are, you ignore the fact that we removed that tagline and change it to "Porcupine-Free Zone since 2012".

That's right Justi, why ignore reality when you want to make a petulant point.

You also perpetutate the ludicrous idiot nonsense that Baby it's Cold Outside is a rapeist song (gee, where have we heard that bit of invective before?):

"To further hamper matters came the thread with the singing along to a song that is a bit in the rape-y talk. Zvan reads it as being rape-talk, and I do too."

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: anone who really think that song is rapeist is damaged and needs help.

Justi's third lie:

"I detailed one of John Greg's more obvious deceptions; namely, he created a post addressed to Stefunny where he implies, but does not specify who, that some people are making the claims that SP2.0 will be editing and deleting posts (a charge we've made all along against FfTB - correctly so). He denies this."

You have intentionally and willfully misconstrued and misrepresented the entire editing discussion, and in classic FfTB stylee, quote mined. The discussion was specifically and only about our concern that some commenters might post a salacious, or dishonest post, and then go back at a later date after being called out on it, and edit it in such a way as to revise history and make themselves look better.

After much discussion, we reached the conclusion that in the proimary thread know editing or deleting of threads by anyone will be allowed.

In the other areas of the BBS, there, I think, a two minute time space within which you can edit for spelling mistakes and that kind of general thing.

your continued fabrication and playing with rea,ity in the editing issue, andyour ongoing dishonesty on all these issues is remarkable, truly remarkable.

Johngreg said...

And for the record, you are posting a blatant lie in that, in actual fact, the tagline was "Beetter than a *** in the ***" So, for the record, you are just assuming in your imagination, as was Stefunny, that it was "kick" and "cunt".

Pedantic, yes. Fact, yes.

The Justicar said...

You're an idiot, and always have been.  It is not relevant to say that sometime later you have changed the motto. I said that the first thing done was to establish that as a motto. It was. Moreover, I note that it wasn't left unnoticed. This is true. Further, the reason I cited to it was specified in the paragraph:  namely, it's being taken as a sign that some people weren't honest brokers, and from that they're generalizing. This is true. Further than that is that I started off noting that it was the best way to fuck over all progress of the previous week.

It is entirely irrelevant that sometime after the damage was done you change it. The damage is done, and can't be undone.

I do not perpetuate 'the ludicrous' bit. I said, quite plainly, that some people take it one way, and others take it a different way. I specified which position I think is the fairer reading, but then state ever if I'm wrong about the, the fact it admits of two interpretations leaves available the argument that it was unwise. You simply call me a liar and fail to address that point. 

If by 'misconstrue; you mean point out that you argue that I've distorted the meaning and then responded to that charge by correcting you that the claim has never ever been that it's only revising history when the editing or deletion is done forcefully over someone's objections. Rather, we have many, many times pointed out that Ophelia edits other people posts against their will AND alters her own to revise history.

That you will adopt her position of editing your own posts after they've been published aligng you quite closely with Ophelia - in that respect and for the same reason. I said this in the post; in your weak attempt to distort what I've said and just lie about things, you must have missed that.

"In the other areas of the BBS, there, I think, a two minute time space within which you can edit for spelling mistakes and that kind of general thing."
Except you argued for it to be like half an hour. But you keep going with your bad self; no one else can read or anything.

I challenge anyone to compare what I've said against John Greg claims I've said and see if what I've said is congruent with his estimation.

Johngreg said...

Armchair, what the heck are you doing supporting Justicar's delusions?

Yes, it is all fine and well that he has stuck to his guns; his principles. That is an honourable thing. But then he quite completely and thoroughly trashes that honour by throwing out so much dishonesty; invective, and lies, and blatant misrepresentations, and pissing on his former friends like an Ophelia in Full Bloom.

Well, it's just sad. And I am saddened, Armchair, that you are encouraging his irrational hysteria. I can easily understand why you would not want to associate with the new so-called Slyme Pit (and, for the record not all of us like the new name, but big deal, we aren't children; we can live with a few disappointments in life), and that's fine; that's your call. But I do not understand why you would want to associate with someone who is showing themselves to be about as loyal as a rabid dog, and about as honest and fair-minded as a rabid Zvan.

So, I have trouble making up my mind; so, I have a disagreement with some of the other Slyme People; so, they make changes that go against my choices; so, someone posts something that gives me a different perspective and I change my mind; so, the new place is not like the old place; so, the new place is not like Justi wanted; so, the new place is not like I wanted. Big. Fucking. Deal.

Justicar, you have simply lost the plot. You have become unhinged. Ciao.

The Justicar said...

I am uncertain why you're operating under the misguided notion that I have or ever have had any loyalty to you. We aren't friends. I ignored you mostly, tolerated you most of the time, but responded to you when you were derping it up too bad. My loyalty has always been to Abbie and the values I have which are also largely shared by Abbie.

I have not abdicated either of those. I have not betrayed Abbie and Abbie doesn't think that I have. I have not hurt Abbie and Abbie doesn't think that I have.

I will not abandon my ethics because it would be convenient for you if I did. I have an obligation to be consistent; dissembling is wrong when the FfTB people do it. It is wrong when you do it. That it was necessary to point out one example out of many possible of you and a few others lying to make the point that the last week I have been, as have others been, operating in good faith is of no moment. That you and others took steps to make it necessary I do that so as not to violate my ethics and to make patent that I am not aligned with you is your own doing. 

You outright flatly denied there would be any editing or deleting or whatever. You called out Stephanie to disabuse the world of what you called not true statements. And then a few minutes later, you're arguing for all the of the good reasons that editing should be allowed. That's not making up one's mind, as I said. That you made a blanket, flatout statement that *none* of that would happen should have restricted you to arguing *against* editing. That you made the blanket promise it wouldn't while also argue it should *continue* makes you dishonest.

And that's your own problem.

Johngreg said...

"You outright flatly denied there would be any editing or deleting or
whatever. You called out Stephanie to disabuse the world of what you
called not true statements. And then a few minutes later, you're arguing
for all the of the good reasons that editing should be allowed."

Justi, when I made that statement to Zvan, I was referring to editing or deleting of any commenters' posts by moderators, or other BBS admins, such as Lsuoma. I was not referring to the option for commenters to make after-the-fact edits to their own posts.

And you know that is true. Stop this ludicrous deceit.

The Justicar said...

Despite your implications to the contrary, I am reasonably certain that you do not know what I know, and are in no position to lecture me about what I know to be true. I know what you wrote, and what you later wrote. They aren't reconcilable one with the other particularly given that for the last year the charge hasn't been restricted to only the editing and deletion of other people's posts. Indeed, we had quite the laugh with respect to Ophelia appending to her post that she's being Orwellian and disappearing down the memory hole and editing her posts because she later came to be embarrassed. 

She did that on her own with content she owns. She was lambasted by the regulars for doing so. It is dishonest to claim that the complaint is only about editing other people's stuff when the facts argue otherwise. Editing other people's stuff was much of the complaint; it was not the universe of the complaint. The issue was entirely that it revises history when comments and posts are edited and deleted because anyone coming along later sees a version of what was said that was at one point in the past different than when they're reading it.

And, incidentally, I am perfectly consistent with how it worked at Abbie's place - once it was typed and posted, it stayed. Whether anyone liked it or not, there it sits for the world to read .. . exactly as it was published. Warts and all.

Now, you can claim you didn't know better, and I might just believe you because you aren't all that bright, but I doubt that I would. Despite how stupid you quite plainly are.

Tristan said...

"I was referring to editing or deleting of any commenters' posts by moderators, or other BBS admins, such as Lsuoma."

Such as this?
http://slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=73&start=100#p786

Yes, I know it's a joke - but it's a very, very bad precedent.

The Justicar said...

lol. 

But that kind of editing is okay. Revising history is only bad when people I don't like do it. It's only acceptable to edit someone's post (even one's own) if people I like do it!

Not that it's my business, but why are you hanging out over there with them?

Tristan said...

Posted a bit at the start, but now I'm just lurking.  Still hoping it may turn into something better, but the signs aren't good.

The Justicar said...

It was obvious immediately that it was going to be a fractured community. One of the first things to happen there was one or two threads opened to talk shit about me. I don't really mind if people do, but i had to publicly state why I'm not following them over, and I had to respond to Sacha's outright fabrications.

The claim (or accidental implication as she's trying to frame it) that I have hurt Abbie, Abbie thinks I have hurt her but is just too kind to come clean about it publicly and all the rest of it I couldn't leave unchallenged. I am one of Abbie's most fervent protagonists; she's absolutely wonderful. To even suggest for a moment that I am trying to usurp or exploit Abbie for my own agenda thereby actually hurting Abbie is grotesque.

But people over there are probably just stupid enough to believe it.

The Justicar said...

I have corrected Sacha's misstatements of reality in the following two links:

http://integralmath.blogspot.com/2012/07/jeopardizing-abbies-well-being.html 

and:
http://integralmath.blogspot.com/2012/07/i-am-possibly-neighbor-of-spartacus.html 

Johngreg said...

LOL!

Justi, my god, you are absolutely fucking nuts, and hilarious too.

There is almost not a word of truth in your paranoid, delusional, hysterical fantasy.

My god, if anyone was a perfect candidate for a new FfTB blog, or a Freudian couch, it's you, pal.

ROFLOL.

Maybe we should all get together and try to paper-airplane sweet nothings into one of your psychotic pockets. Ooh! Ooh! Assaults! Assaults, ya fuckin nutcracker.

Ha, ha, ha, ha.

Looneyfuckingfruitytunes Are Us, is the wee Justicardiod.

You friggin' pathetic, psychotic, paranoid loon, you are not even worth serious consideration.

Tristan? What the fuck are you doing skating on this delusional psychopaths coat-tails?

Rolling on the floor laughing at OpheliaJustiStefunnyZvanCarNatalieDroid.

Give us all a call when you start blowing PeeZus, pal.

smhll said...

That last Hoggle paragraph quoted is just chockful of self-evident irony. And kind of empty of content.

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